18:58:57 #startmeeting 18:58:57 Meeting started Wed Mar 21 18:58:57 2018 UTC. The chair is OdyX. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:58:57 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 18:58:57 * gwolf runs for coffee 18:59:00 #topic round of names. 18:59:06 oh - No, no running for coffee 18:59:06 * marga Margarita Manterola 18:59:12 * gwolf Gunnar Wolf 18:59:13 Niko Tyni 18:59:17 Philip Hands 18:59:19 Simon McVittie 18:59:22 Didier Raboud 18:59:45 Tollef Fog Heen 19:00:19 bremner are you around ? 19:00:37 #topic Review of previous meetings' TODOs 19:01:01 I think they were all done, thanks for that! 19:01:07 re : http://meetbot.debian.net/debian-ctte/2018/debian-ctte.2018-02-21-19.01.html 19:01:18 #topic #877024 modemmanager should ask before messing with serial ports 19:01:30 fil: what's your take here? 19:01:52 it's fixed a couple of weeks ago: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=683839#101 19:02:05 (I only noticed this evening) 19:02:30 so I guess we can close our bug \o/ 19:02:34 Yay! 19:02:38 Oh, great. 19:02:53 \o/ 19:03:10 FTR, I'm happy with how the process went; not ruling and getting (or having) upstream involved towards a satisfactory solution: great. 19:03:34 yeah, me too -- I am happy to do the closing BTW 19:03:41 #action fil to close #877024 pointing to the #683839 bug closure. 19:04:34 If there are meta things to discuss, let's do the chat in Additional Business 19:04:39 #topic #893200 TC Chair election 19:05:16 As we have a full TC already in 2018, it might make sense to start the rotation already. 19:05:26 start the rotation? 19:05:56 marga: that's when you take over the chair ;-) 19:05:57 as my term expires at the end of this year, we're not likely to change the TC chair before I'm no longer on the TC. 19:05:58 marga: I suggested last meeting that OdyX does not stay as Chair until the Process™ kicks him out 19:06:00 * fil hides 19:06:18 * gwolf is still too young as CTTE-member 19:06:33 so it was suggested that someone else™ would become chair and that I would (of course) stay as helper. 19:06:52 Ok 19:06:59 So, yeah, I have no problem being chair 19:07:15 But I think Didier does a great job :) 19:07:26 And that's the closest we have to a volunteer to the position ☺ 19:07:31 Despite earlier intentions, not much is scripted, so the chair job is mostly trying to avoid copy-paste mistakes from previous mails, and chairing the meetings "firmly". 19:08:01 thanks for volunteering marga :) 19:08:21 and it has this awesome little reward that it's the third-in-line in the power command in Debian :-) 19:08:28 (and agreed that Didier is doing great too) 19:08:35 "reward" 19:08:52 That's the part that's kind of strange 19:09:06 Creating the agenda for the meeting and running the meeting is one thing 19:09:13 Being third-in-line is a different thing 19:09:28 ☺ You can just not think about it 19:09:28 I find it strange that we conflate the two 19:09:30 Oh sure. It's more of a bragging-occasion detail when explaining what the TC chair is doing: "together with the Secretary, fill in a vacant DPL's seat". 19:10:20 AFAIK, we've never needed that power 19:10:33 we can separate the two "de facto" without changing the constitution. It's good™ though for the TC to know who's damned^Win charge of doing the agenda/meeting invites/chairing. 19:11:08 there's also the power of the casting vote 19:11:14 Ah, yes 19:11:19 And that one has been used... 19:11:22 ah true, it can come systemd-handy 19:11:33 Right, IMO it's casting > chair-meetings > fill-in-vacant 19:11:49 fill-in-vacant is a constitutional attribution that has *never* been used 19:11:53 TTBOMK at least 19:11:57 `chair-meetings` can be done without explicit power. It just needs doing. 19:12:03 I think I remember hearing that it was used once 19:12:04 Casting is more important than... yes, what OdyX said 19:12:11 Branden Robinson's term? 19:12:34 Anyway, I feel like I'm de-railing the conversation, but this is something that has bothered me a little bit since I started 19:12:37 so, who would be willing to do the chairing, in addition to OdyX? 19:12:56 I'm willing to do the agenda / chairing meetings stuff 19:12:57 (everybody's on the ballot, but electing somebody who's unhappy being the chair's not the best idea) 19:12:58 I suspect it's much more of a burden on the chair's shoulders when that power needs to be held, than an opportunity, really. 19:13:05 marga: the meeting does not have too many points to cover, so I'm happy to discuss if needed 19:13:10 I'm less sure about the casting vote / replacing the DPL stuff 19:13:29 marga: it's a package, but those other bits are rarely used, so. 19:13:35 We *need* to have a chair (per constitution) 19:13:39 Yes, yes 19:13:46 the ballot doesn't have FD on purpose :-) 19:14:06 Even the casting is not much needed - but I feel it as more important... 19:14:16 OdyX: We could agree to vote in a round so that we hve an eight-way tie. 19:14:23 (but *now* I'm derailing the discussion) 19:14:26 hih 19:14:31 But then the other thing is that it feels weird to be voting for the person that I want to have the casting vote and stack ranking my fellow TC members 19:14:37 marga: I'd be honoured to hand the charge over to you. And as "soon-to-leave" TC member, it also makes sense that I don't get to keep the casting vote token much longer either. 19:14:48 my term expires this year, so while I'd be willing to hold the chair, it's not any better than having OdyX 19:15:36 we can all vote for bremner 19:15:39 marga: *shrug*; that's how elections work. 19:15:53 :-) 19:16:01 As we agreed to have a public vote anyway, it feels to me we gathered enough data to establish our individual votes, don't we ? 19:16:19 oh, sure. 19:16:22 * gwolf nods 19:16:36 As I mentionned in a previous meeting already: please vote sincerely, and (inversely) please don't try to read too much between the lines of the individual votes. 19:16:42 (I'd still prefer to have an enthusiastic candidate - but we can talk off-meeting) 19:16:47 as long as voting for marga doesn't make her unhappy... 19:16:50 err. wut? 19:16:55 sorry I'm late 19:16:58 * Mithrandir dials gwolf's enthusiasm to 11. 19:17:04 Wait, let's do this 19:17:10 I agree to do the meeting thing 19:17:12 * gwolf sets modulo to 10 19:17:17 Please vote for the other thing 19:17:41 marga: okay; please #action yourself for that :-) 19:17:53 i.e. regardless of the meeting part. Vote for the person that you want to have the casting vote / replacing the DPL power 19:18:16 #action everyone to vote for the TC chair in #892300 before Sat 24 09:25 UTC. 19:18:16 #action Marga will take the secretarial duties (meeting agenda, meeting emails, chairing meetings, etc). Regardless of the outcome of the vote. 19:18:38 #topic Welcome smcv 19:18:48 welcome smcv! 19:18:50 * smcv feels appropriately welcomed 19:18:58 Wilkommen! 19:19:01 That topic wasn't on the agenda, but I'm abusing of my meeting chair powers to sneak it in! 19:19:08 Welcome smcv! 19:19:16 OdyX: That's a great use of your Powers ☺ 19:19:28 Despite the low number of nominations (which we agreed to make public), I'm thrilled to have you on board smcv. 19:19:40 Welcome! 19:19:40 smcv: Welcome :-) 19:19:57 I feel we found a great match for the position with you. And I'm honored to share expiration date with you ☺ 19:20:03 #topic Further rounds of nominations 19:20:28 It's not an emergency just yet, but Mithrandir and myself will leave the TC on Dec 31. 19:20:48 there's been a deadly silence from the last batch of randomness ... I'll give that another kick I guess 19:20:54 fil: You have been handling this dance so far, but I believe it takes quite a bit of effort 19:20:59 Do you want to share the load? 19:21:13 almost none actually -- I have a script I run on master 19:21:17 (we do require coordination, so that we don't pester the same people) 19:21:21 The TC doesn't _need_ to fill the two then-vacant seats then, but now that it's a rolling thing (all of us have started our terms under the new constitution), it needs doing. 19:21:22 fil, does it make sense to give it another kick right now? 19:21:29 ok, that's good 19:22:07 gwolf: and I have a blacklist that grows, so nobody gets bothered twice 19:22:23 I mean if we get nominations now, they would only start their terms in ~9 months... 19:22:36 Debian (as a whole) also needs to address the lack of nominations; perhaps a discussion to be started at DebConf or in the second half of the year, online. 19:22:38 I would rather wait until September/October to start the thing again. 19:22:44 should the blacklisting also expire..? 19:23:03 agreed it feels a bit early 19:23:11 yeah, I think it might make sense to start a broader discussion later in the year. 19:23:13 OdyX: FWIW I found the "Meet the TC" session at DebConf as most convincing push for getting on board 19:23:19 I don't see why it should (especially since I declared that it wouldn't in the spam) 19:23:24 I think we can delay until then at least 19:23:30 OK 19:23:49 FYI: I'm almost certainly not going to be at DC18. 19:23:51 #topic Additional Business 19:24:03 I won't make it to DebConf18 either 19:24:13 sure, I was thinking we had a slot to fill soon for some reason, no point bothering people now 19:24:20 not me either, keeping up my record of 1 debconf per decade 19:24:36 smcv: cool we could meet in DebConf17 then :) 19:24:42 I ought to be there (hopefully with the family :-) ) 19:24:43 I will be there. Got my tickets and all. 19:25:01 My family will be close to 20,000Km away ☺ 19:25:06 not quite sure if I can make DebConf but probably not 19:25:52 Anyway - I think we can decide to leave further nominations until ~ DebConf 19:25:59 Works for me 19:26:03 me too 19:26:04 and we will later see if we have a TC session at DebConf 19:26:16 I'd like to if it's enough of us... 19:26:20 (Not really my problem anymore either :->) 19:26:34 OdyX: you mentioned a possibility of having meta things to discuss around #877024? 19:26:46 There's the "traditional" "meet the TC BoF" that is great to keep 19:26:49 * gwolf nominates OdyX for 2020 :-P 19:27:17 that's mean 19:27:50 smcv: ah yes, right. Context is that we frequently discussed how to initially address incoming issues, and how quickly/firmly we want to reach a "formal TC decision". 19:28:35 looking at that bug from the outside, I must admit my thought was "why is this with the ctte?" 19:28:45 my understanding is that the current TC is (IMHO rightfully) reluctant to rule unless all other venues for consensus have been tried and failed. 19:29:31 I seem to remember that Mithrandir wanted (or was pushed) to write down a "how the TC intends to address incoming issues" sort-of checklist. 19:30:26 having gone ahead and done it recently, I think that if anyone thinks a bug is pointless/misdirected they should just go ahead and close them -- after all it's not a problem to reopen them is the consensus turns out not to exist 19:30:27 Then fil noted that https://www.debian.org/devel/tech-ctte was aplenty, and mostly just needed to be used by TC members and my submitters as checklist. 19:30:42 s/is/if/ 19:31:47 I also think a "You've not done any of steps 1..3 -- try again" closure would be fine too 19:31:58 I concur. 19:32:56 If there's not more coming :-) 19:32:59 #endmeeting